MuscleStud: Ridiculous Fines - 9/22/06

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Male Performer Chat: Ridiculous Fines

Created by: musclestud

9/22/06 @ 4:38pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 123

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I'm really sick and tired of the ridiculous fines of the models here for the most absurd reasons. I just found out Giomm, who is one of the best, nicest, most professional models here, got fined $100 for wearing a jock strap. Perikles got fined another $100 for kissing Giomm in his room. These models make next to nothing as it is, and to fine them what is a fortune to them for the most inane things has got to stop. I won't continue to support a site that treats its employees so badly.

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Created by: brandon2807

9/22/06 @ 5:17pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Australia
Posts: 819

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Brad . . you need to enquire into MuscleStuds points and report back on your findings.

If what MuscleStud says you verify as correct, would you outline the REASONS why these models were fined what appears to be outrageously excessive amounts.

While individual studios must have some basic rules in place, and individual countries have their own particular restrictions as to what can and can't be done on line, there does appear to be some studios that have made an art form of fining models for the most trivial of reasons.

If I were a Monitor or High Up in Flirt I would be sending a MEMO to all studios reminding them that while some regulations are valid, F4F will not stand for abuse of the fines/rules for minor insignificant reasons.

And cut them (the studio) off if they persist. Or better still : fine the studio!

Unfortunately, MuscleStud, this is one of the downsides of globalization . . is there any upside? . . . but a BOYCOTT by us may have an effect.

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Created by: musclestud

9/22/06 @ 10:00pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 123

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Thanks for your support on this issue Brandon. I've seen this go on for quite some time, but never said anything before now. It just hurts me to see this done to Giomm who is one of the nicest and most giving models I've ever seen here. He and Perikles both love doing their jobs so much, and I just hate to see them abused in this manner. I mean, I understand strict enforcement against showing genitalia, since minors could be watching, but when they fine models hundreds of dollars for eating on camera, smoking on camera, showing butt cheeks for too long, or having two people on camera briefly in a single's room, I think it goes too far.

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Created by: hottie9090

9/23/06 @ 12:50am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 104

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I completely agree with the posts in this thread.

The models should only be fined when it is very valid, deserved and has a purpose.

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Created by: montyy

9/24/06 @ 10:19pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: the earth
Posts: 10

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yes the fines on this site are ridiculus!
models are treated very strict like on no other site I heard of.And new restrictions are added on regular basis - like this funny webmail system that barely works. No private email address,no cam2cam, no eating/drinking/smoking etc.

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Created by: purgatory

10/1/06 @ 10:06am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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While individual studios must have some basic rules in place, and individual countries have their own particular restrictions as to what can and can't be done on line, there does appear to be some studios that have made an art form of fining models for the most trivial of reasons.
If I were a Monitor or High Up in Flirt I would be sending a MEMO to all studios reminding them that while some regulations are valid, F4F will not stand for abuse of the fines/rules for minor insignificant reasons.
And cut them (the studio) off if they persist. Or better still : fine the studio!

Got to agree here I here all time some model gets a silly fine for some silly little thing from studios ... I think some rules need to be put in place for how studios fine models too .. I did here one model other day got fined $15 just for login in 5 mins late... lets be real that 5mins could have been taken out of break time ... I have to agree some studios are making it an art form ... and it does get out and making the site image not look too cool ... Yes its a studio doing it and I agree with some studio rules but i'm hearing too many petty reasosn for giving models fines...

If it's a site fine by VS im sure there is a good reason to why a fine was given but the fines i'm always hearing about come from studios and are really not good reasons in most cases why the models got fined..

Brad what you think maybe time to outline some rules for studios on how they fine internally the models ? Lets try keep the system fair for all the models and not let petty studios take advatage of some models .. I know it happens i'm sorry to say..

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Created by: VIP Brad

10/1/06 @ 5:19pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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Brad . . you need to enquire into MuscleStuds points and report back on your findings.

All of our policies are clearly outlined. Fines are the last resort and they only occur after the performer has been warned.

If what MuscleStud says you verify as correct, would you outline the REASONS why these models were fined what appears to be outrageously excessive amounts.

The fine schedule starts with warnings and escalates from there. $100 is a 3rd or 4th offense.

And cut them (the studio) off if they persist. Or better still : fine the studio!

All fines are sent to the studio. We have no relationship with the performer.

I understand your concern for the performers. We are very fair and consistent in our enforcement of our policies.

VIP Brad

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Created by: musclestud

10/3/06 @ 1:27am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 123

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Brad,

I REALLY appreciate you taking the time to respond to this issue. If the policies you laid out here were followed, I think the studio acted fairly. I must say it has always been my impression that this has not always been the case, and I plan to look into it further (now that I know the proper procedure). I would hope that if I find this has not been the case you guys will investigate it further.

Thanks again Brad.

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Created by: musclestud

10/5/06 @ 12:27pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 123

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Hi Brad,

Ok, I did a little investigating. I can't speak for every model, but the case that got me very upset goes like this:

Giomm got a $100 fine for showing his butt too close to cam in a thong. NO WARNING.

Perikles got a $50 fine for kissing his boyfriend, Giomm, in his room. NO WARNING

Not only were they never warned, but they didn't even know they were doing anything against policy. I've talked to models in other studios and they did have warnings before getting fines, so maybe it is only a problem in their studio - I'm not sure. And I have known them both for a while, and they are both extremely professional and honest. I believe what they tell me. I really hope you will look into to this, because it is wrong. I'm pretty sure I've heard similar problems before, but this is the only specific case I know of to report on.

Thanks Brad.

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Created by: brandon2807

10/5/06 @ 10:08pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Australia
Posts: 819

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I said earlier . . and it bears repeating again . . . "some studios have made an art form of fining models for the most trivial of reasons."

And for the sole reason - as the above examples indicate - of enabling the studio owner to "legally rob" the models by reducing his or her pay and "pocketing" the cash for themselves.

If what MuscleStud says is in fact true, then I can't believe that FLIRT has rules in place that restrict how close to the camera a model can show their butt in a string.

On the other hand, I can see why a rule regarding two performers being on screen, kissing or whatever, is there - it is simply that in some countries this is not legally permitted.

The FLIRT business is very good for some studio owners . . . the one or two rogue owners should not be permitted to "rort" this fining regime like third world dictators.

If you find what MuscleStud has said about the butt/string/too close is correct, I would trust that Flirt instructs the fine to be reimbursed to the model.

I am sure most studios use the Flirt Guidelines as they are intended - they seem very fair and there are strict procedures in place . . . so that any "rogue" studio should be pulled straight back into line.

:twocents

: (although i think i got more than my 2 cents worth in this post! LOL)

Acting upon reliable information
A fed'ral deputation laid a deadly ambush.
When Bonnie and Clyde came walking in the sunshine
A half a dozen carbines opened up on them.

:twocents

(Bonnie and Clyde, Georgie Fame)

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Created by: musclestud

10/12/06 @ 6:39pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 123

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I just wanted to move this topic to the top so Brad will see it. Brad - please read my findings here. I would really appreciate a response. Thank you!

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Created by: musclestud

10/19/06 @ 4:57pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 123

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Created by: cdaxboy

11/7/06 @ 2:13am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Canada
Posts: 9

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No offence ; but Brad's response was very generic.
His response seems to indicate he didnt actually check into anything-- He seems to be just reciting the basic rules.
Sorry Brad but your response didnt address any of the concerns expressed here.
I have also heard the russian and european models complaining about overly strict bosses and crazy fines.
Are the studios some sort of online porno franchise? --ie someone there owns it; hires the models; and the parent company gets a cut?

cdaxboy

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Created by: w8

11/11/06 @ 6:56pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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Today I was informed by one of my favourite models that 16 of them have been fined $40 each for giving out an email address to clients. This is in efect for some of them possibly a day or even a weeks earnings, Disgraceful and if this is what the site is about its time we decided to take some action collectively. BRAD WHATS GOING ON....

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Created by: musclestud

11/12/06 @ 10:12pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 123

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Well at least that's understandable given those are clearly defined rules of the studio. The cases I'm more concerned about are the fines for rules that were never laid out with no warning whatsoever. I have only been able to find out for sure that this occurs often in 1 studio, but I'm pretty sure it happens in others as well. Something really needs to be done about it.

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Created by: w8

11/13/06 @ 6:53pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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yes I understand that they maybe the rule. but if the f4f email system was not such crap then models need not give emails to clients.

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Created by: assjockey

11/25/06 @ 3:15pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: USA
Posts: 4

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Created by: vs_jamie

12/6/06 @ 2:15pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: CA
Posts: 2,326

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Musclestud and everyone else - there is a very standard set of guidlines f4f has to follow in order to be legally safe. In regards to Perikles and Giomm, it is impossible for a model to be fined for kissing another model in a show. However, if the room is supposed to be a one person room, and is not a guy on guy show, a fine can be imposed, everything is not always how the models make it out to seem, or their bosses at their individual studios are not making the fine clear. Secondly, the amount each model is fined, is based on how many previous times each model has gotten warned or fined about before. The amount they are fined is not done haphazardly, but is a set amount, and then each studio decides how much of that fine the model themself has to contribute. The violations are done very carefully, and can always be contested by the studio if they think there is something f4f missed, or fined erroneously. Everything after they are fined is up to the studios, but what f4f sends to the studios is always very clear, with a screen capture of a violation, or a direct quote from the model that is not allowed. Brad's job is really busy right now getting the new system setup, so give him a break guys, after the new system is running, everyone at f4f should be able to respond to issues quicker.

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Created by: musclestud

12/7/06 @ 3:08am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 123

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I appreciate all your views, but let me clear some things up. Yes, I am going by the models' words, but unlike other models I may not believe, I trust Peri and Giomm to be truthful with me. I've known them for a long time and sincerely trust what they are saying. I've heard similar things in their studio from other models in the past, but this is the one case I wanted to report. Yes, they kissed in a solo room, but they are boyfriends for 2 years and were just kissing goodbye. They had never been warned before and received a substantial fine. The other fine was for showing butt in a thong close to camera for too long - this is a very subjective decision and again, a substantial fine without prior warning. Both these cases have no legal bearing on f4f, they are just rules that have been set for whatever reason. I have been assured by several models that NOTHING will ever be done to stop the studios from doing this to models and that I was wasting my time in trying. I'm determined to prove them wrong. All I'm asking is it be looked into. If f4f stands by the decision than so be it.

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Created by: vs_jamie

12/7/06 @ 4:30pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: CA
Posts: 2,326

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Since I deal with the violations everyday, I can tell you with absolute certainty that these individual cases you have named are exactly as I said. We do not care if the model is in a thong, but if they go up close to the camera and expose their anus, or if they zoom in on some part of their genitalia being exposed, we have to fine them for exposing themselves, not because it is just a rule, but because legally that is what f4f has to do. Only in private rooms can there be full exposure, or we are in danger of having severe legal problems. Having more than one model in a room that is supposed to be a single room, is a major offense, because they do not have permission from their studio, and then our logs are out of whack, and again open to legal issues, f4f would like to avoid. Kissing does not need to be done on camera, nor does another person need to be hanging out in the room of a single room. Kissing was never the issue, and 2 years or not, it is not allowed, exceptions can't be made when there are many other options they could have chosen, and they know the rules do not allow for all of the violations they are fined for. I know you trust certain models and develop bonds with them, but remember what f4f decides does not go strictly into their ear, but into the studio head's. However, as I said before, all violations are examined very carefully, and follow a set of guidelines models need to follow for their own safety and ours.

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